Love him or hate him, there’s no debate that when you talk about legends in Sports Talk radio, there are few names that stand above the rest… WFAN/New York City’s Mike Francesa is one of those at the top of the list. Whether it was with his former partner Chris “Mad Dog” Russo or on his current solo show, Mike’d Up: Francesa on the FAN, for almost a quarter century Francesa has been causing the phones at WFAN to light up with listeners full of hate, love and everything in between. Sitting at his desk with not much more than a Diet Coke and a stack of newspapers on it, Francesa sat down to answer questions about his time at WFAN.
Mike Francesa
By Michael Parrish
Love him or hate him, there’s no debate that when you talk about legends in Sports Talk radio, there are few names that stand above the rest… WFAN/New York City’s Mike Francesa is one of those at the top of the list. Whether it was with his former partnerChris “Mad Dog” Russo or on his current solo show, Mike’d Up: Francesa on the FAN, for almost a quarter century Francesa has been causing the phones at WFAN to light up with listeners full of hate, love and everything in between.
“What I want is the caller to come into the arena, and a lot of times they want to compete, they want to argue. If the calls are all high note, nice point, good point, then it’s all monotone. It’s boring!” exclaims Francesa during our discussion. “You want to have conversation, arguments, or anything that has some fire, that’s what I try to do.”
And that’s the beauty of Francesa’s show. It is thee arena for New York sports fans. It’s where Yankees fans stand tall above every other team in town. It’s where Giants and Knicks supporters stand proud when they win and grouse when they lose. It’s where followers of the lowly Jets and Nets franchises cry for respect. It’s where the NHL… well, more on that later. And let’s not forget the Mets fans that Francesa toys with like a kitten batting a house mouse caught in the corner of a kitchen.
Sitting at his desk with not much more than a Diet Coke and a stack of newspapers on it, Francesa sat down to answer my questions about his time at WFAN, at one point claiming, “There’s only one story left that they want to write, and that’s my goodbye. Saying I’m successful now is silly. I’ve been No. 1 for twenty-four years. They’re not going to write about my success; all they’re going to write about is how I flopped. My being successful is not a story to anybody any more.”
Ah, not true, Mike. Not true at all.
What was it like at the beginning of WFAN when Sports Talk radio was in its infancy and still a programming gamble?
They had a good idea, but their concept was completely national, not local. They realized after building very slowly that wasn’t the way to go at it, and then the station changed dramatically. They went to local shows, put on Imus In The Morning and then the station took off. When people think of WFAN as the first all sports station, they have to remember that it wasn’t all sports, becauseDon Imus was the morning guy and without that platform, I don’t know that this format would have been successful. He really gave Sports Talk a chance to take off by having a successful and now legendary morning show that gave WFAN a revenue stream until Mike & The Mad Dog caught on; and we caught on real fast. We were No. 1 within nine months. We went from like eleventh to third in the first book, and within three books we were first, and then we were first forever.
This format changed the AM dial. A lot of people think it saved the AM dial. I know there are over 400 Sports Talk stations in the country and now Sports Talk is going to FM. It’s kind of ironic too because it has come full circle. When we started, Sports Talk was one guy taking calls, adding his elements, doing interviews, doing whatever he brought to the genre. Dog and I made it a co-hosted program. We made it a platform for more than one person and two became the industry standard, and in some places, it was more than two. But, quite ironically, we’re both back to doing solo shows. The way the business is changing, you may see a return to more solo shows because of economics, and because of the way shows are going to be developed in the future.
ESPN brought sports to a whole different level in the early ’80s and then you guys built up what you did in the second half of the decade. So there’s this huge national picture to consider, yet you still need to be knowledgeable about your own local market to remain relevant to your local listeners and sports teams. Is that local connection versus having to always take in the national picture what helps you maintain your success?
I’m not saying you can’t be successful doing national radio programs. You can, but it’s completely different than what we do. If you’re going to be syndicated nationally, you’re going to look to do a volume business. You’re going to look to clear New York, Chicago, and L.A. for your advertisers and in most of the cases; those national shows don’t clear New York, because what station are you going to clear? That’s why ESPN started their own station in New York.
But when you do this, the basis of Sports Talk is being the show in New York, or in Chicago – being the show that becomes the nerve center for sports in that town – that’s when Sports Talk is at its best. That’s what Mike & The Mad Dog was from its inception and that’s what my show is now. When you’re doing a national show, that’s a completely different thing and you have different aspirations and goals, because you’re not going to be No. 1 in a lot of cases, but you don’t have to be. While our goal is to be No. 1 in this city; my goal has always been to be successful on this show. That was my goal when I started; to be able to build something that has legs in this city, in this time period, and I’ve been here twenty-four years, so it’s worked out okay.
How do you find time to stay on top of everything you need to cover on a daily basis?
If you’re going to do this in a big city like New York City, you have to talk baseball 12-months-a-year. You have to talk football ten-months-a-year, and everything else has its moments. So when the Rangers are in the playoffs, you do some hockey. The Knicksare back in the playoffs, so we’ll talk about them. We’ll cover golf when there are big events like the Masters or the NCAA tournament when it comes around, but this really is a nuts and bolts football/baseball driven business. Football is very heavy during the season and into the playoffs and baseball is like a book where you turn the page every day and there’s a new story. Once the baseball season starts, you have a story every single day and it will always be part of your program on a daily basis; there’s no way around it. If you don’t like watching baseball games this is not a good job for you.
Which is your favorite sport to cover?
I don’t really have one. I love football. I love baseball. I never miss the NFL on Sunday. I never miss the big events in either sport. I love both sports, I really do. And I like basketball. I love the NCAA tournament. I did it on CBS for 15 years. The only sport that I don’t consider myself well versed in is hockey.
Who is your all-time favorite guest that has been on the show?
George Young, the old general manager of the Giants was a great guest. I used to love having him on. He was cantankerous and honest. I respected him a lot. There have been a lot of good guests, but I think of it in terms of who the big “get” is at the moment. In this town you need to talk to the managers, especially the Yankees manager. Coaches and executives are usually better than players. Once in a while you get an outrageous player, but most are rarely outspoken and seem reserved in their approach. But GMs like Brian Cashman, you never know what he is going to say.
Speaking of guests; one of my favorite things to listen to is your Sunday morning NFL show and the weekly conversation with Phil Simms.
He’s very good at it. I’ve been doing that Sunday show, The NFL Now, since I started here. I actually did that before I started the regular show in ’89. But when Phil retired he came to me and asked to be on the program. He said he didn’t want to be paid. He was looking to get in the business and all he asked is that I don’t have any other players on as an analyst. I said, “Deal.” He’s grown to be the No. 1 analyst, and he’s been on every week and does an incredibly good job. I couldn’t do the show without him. Other people have asked and tried to come on the show but I say “Nope, that’s Phil’s spot.”
Were you really in consideration for the Monday Night Football gig when Dennis Miller got the job?
It is true. I kept it quiet. They asked me to keep it quiet. They thought I could be more outspoken than an ex-player or ex-coach could be, but they were really looking for a comedian. They first told me they were going to hire Billy Crystal, but they ended up giving Dennis Miller the job. But I kept it quiet. I had told [V/P Sports Programming CBS Radio & V/P Programming CBS Radio New York Mark] Chernoff about it as it was unfolding but I really kept it quiet until I mentioned it on the air once years after the fact.
Why have you never left WFAN for other opportunities?
The only time I ever considered it was in 1991. ESPN offered me a big job for a substantial amount of money. I thought about it and turned it down. Since then I’ve never even considered leaving. I’ve never even discussed it with anybody because it’s pretty well-known that I wouldn’t leave and would only do stuff that I could do while still at WFAN. The Monday Night Football thing would have worked around the radio show. But that was the only time I ever considered in all the years as far as any network, and since then, I’ve never even had a serious offer to leave.
Your current contract is up in 2013. You’re going to be turning 59 around that time. Have you had any thoughts as to if you’ll want to keep doing this?
We noticed that my contract expired on 12/31 of the year right before New York gets the Super Bowl in 2014. We’re already talking about things the station is going to be doing and there are plans for two things I’m involved in. So we decided we would move my contract by a handshake into March [of 2014], so that we know it’s not going to end on that Super Bowl. All we have agreed to do is talk when I have one year left.
Have you thought about it on a personal level yet?
I don’t know. I’ll either stay or leave, but I don’t think I’ll cut back. I don’t think I’ll change. I don’t think I will do less. I think I’ll either keep doing it or leave. One or the other; I don’t know which one.
Let’s switch gears and I want to ask you about a comment you made on the air when Imus was fired. You said, “”I’m embarrassed by the company and its decision.” Was that comment more about the fact Imus was fired in the middle of his telethon or were you bothered over the reasoning for his dismissal?
It was both. I thought it was a hasty decision. I met with Leslie Moonves before he made a decision on Don. I think now, in retrospect, his mind was made up, but I went to him and said, “Hey, I think you’re making a mistake.” He met with me for three hours, which I give him credit for. But I thought they missed an opportunity. Don made a mistake, we all know that. I always thought he was coming back because Don’s done too much good to have one dumb statement ruin his career. Don is not someone who’s a hater. He’s done too much good stuff to be a hater. And that was my point to the company. Turn this into something positive. Use the power of the company and the power Don has to do something positive, rather than just run away from the problem.
Obviously Don landed on his feet and it’s long forgotten but, again, it was an emotional time. I can tell you right now CBS never told me I couldn’t speak. They let me know they weren’t happy with what I was saying, but they never tried to fire me and I actually came out of it feeling that the company, at least was pretty honest about that part of it. They let me speak my piece, which wasn’t very pleasant.
Do you listen to WFAN when you’re not on the air?
Yeah, sometimes. I don’t hear the morning show much but they’re doing great. I stay up late watching games and I try to spend the morning with my kids. I drive them to school. By the time I’m finished with them and doing everything, it’s about 9:15. I get in the shower and then I’m getting ready to leave. I hear the midday show driving in. I hear the station on bits and pieces on the weekend, and if I’m in the car I listen to it, so I try to listen to the station as much as I can.
Can you rate Craig Carton’s Mad Dog impression?
I’ve only heard it once or twice. It’s good; it’s pretty good. I give Chernoff a lot of credit (for finding Boomer Esiason and Craig). Those were big shoes to fill and Chernoff did a great job. He took a lot of time doing it. And those guys have walked in and done a great job together. They really have. They’ve worked hard and they’ve done a very, very good job for the station. The station, as far as the regulars go, has never been more successful than it is now. And that’s a testimony to what those guys did, and it’s a testimony to what Chernoff’s done.
In a platform that’s so opinion based, you’ve got to realize that what you do doesn’t come without criticism. You’re obviously aware of some of the stuff that comes your way.
Definitely.
Sometimes it feels as if you put a caller on the air who doesn’t agree with you just to get a little back and forth going with them. Do you like feeding off of that energy from the listeners who disagree with you?
My theory is this, and I think it’s been mistaken: As far as the criticism from critics, I know what they target. There’s only one story left that they want to write, and that’s my goodbye. Saying I’m successful now is silly. I’ve been No. 1 for twenty-four years. They’re not going to write about my success; all they’re going to write about is how I flopped. My being successful is not a story to anybody any more. I’ve been here forever, so I’m part of the furniture.
I hear all this stuff about my ego and this and that, and that’s all fun. I don’t worry about any of that stuff. As far as when people say I don’t like the audience, I’ll say no one likes the audience more than I do. I worship the audience; I cherish them because without them I have no show. I think every day about what I can give that audience, and no one has ever worked harder than I do to produce that kind of show and deliver that kind of show every day.
My theory is very different than a lot of the hosts. I look at it as the arena and the stage. From the caller, and that’s only two-percent of the audience, they’re such a small smattering, so don’t confuse audience and caller. What I want is the caller to come into the arena, and a lot of times they want to compete, they want to argue. If the calls are all high note, nice point, good point, then it’s all monotone. It’s boring! You want to have conversation, arguments, or anything that has some fire, that’s what I try to do, so you’re right, I’m looking for that from my callers. I want someone who is calling me, mad at me. I want someone calling me angry at me, but I want them to be coherent and I want them to make a point. I don’t want them to be in any way out of line, but I do want them to be confrontational. It makes for good radio. It makes for energy. I think I know what works, and that works!
I’m a Mets fan…
Oh, you know I infuriate them.
Very much so. In fact, on my way here today a Mets fan friend asked me why I was going to interview “that blowhard.” But, I actually enjoy you as Mets fan because I like hearing that opposite point of view. It provides a dose of reality instead of the fantasy land most Mets fans live in.
In this business, you want people to love you and hate you. You just don’t want them to ignore you. If you have opinions, you’re not going to make everybody happy. You’ve got not chance. There’s no way, so stop trying. That’s the way it is, so understand that your job is to move them. Your job is to entertain them. Make them laugh. Make them mad. Yes, you have to be qualified. Yes, you have to do your homework. Yes, you have to understand what you’re talking about. I don’t question that. If anyone questions that about me – if they think they know more about this than I do that’s silly because this is what I’ve done my whole life. And I’m not a dummy. You might not like my opinion, that’s fine! It’s an opinion, call me and argue about it, that’s what this is about.
At the end of a day when you go home and you’re looking back on a show, what makes you smile and say, “That was a good show today”?
If it’s a really fast show, then I know it’s a good show. My job everyday is to understand what the audience is interested in. You want to connect every day, and that’s something I understand very well. I know this town and what its pulse is; and this town has a sports pulse every day. I can create a pulse and there are days I do that, but there are days when that story is already there and you have to make sure that you’re connected to it and move it. That’s exactly what I do.
[eQB Content by Michael Parrish]
