John Stewart is one of those rare breed of programmers today that still has the freedom, flexibility and desire to program a Top 40 radio station any way he likes. It happens to be the right way for Canton, Ohio, a market that not only competes with local stations, but also has significant market crossover with neighboring Cleveland and Akron signals. He’s been successfully guiding this adventurous music CHR for ten years now when the station first flipped to Top 40 and has substantial ratings to support his approach and philosophy.
By Fred Deane
Fred Deane
It takes one to know one and John Stewart certainly is on an intimate basis with his listening community. It’s not only because he’s a small town Midwest kind of guy, growing up in Hillsdale, Michigan, and understands the small town Midwest mentality, it’s also because he maintains daily contact with his P1’s via his mid-day show and as Director of Programming does relevant research and homework about his core listeners.
Stewart is a seasoned radio veteran with origins tracing back to 1987 and the Tampa market where he worked at four different radio stations in the span of sixteen years. He returned to the Midwest in 2003 and joined D.A. Peterson, Inc., a single radiooperator in a small market that had just flipped WDJQ to Top 40 and needed experience and guidance to lead the station forward. John has turned Q92.5 into a ratings monster and garnered quite the reputation for being so musically aggressive in today’s Top 40 environment.
You’ve developed a keen reputation for discovering and aggressively pursuing new music. What are your guidelines for this process?
It’s primarily out of necessity. We need to have a good balance, especially here in the rust belt. I’m consistently looking for music that has guitars in it. That’s what tends to lack in our format from time to time. When you look at the top of the Top 40 charts you have more than your share of Pop artists like the Katy Perry’s, Carly Rae’s and Pitbull’s of the world, and there needs to be more of a balance. An ample supply of Rock is what’s been lacking throughout the ten years I’ve been here. For us to champion artists like Linkin Park, Nickelback, Theory of a Deadman and Neon Trees really allows for this balance. We started playing Neon Trees last December, and to see it finally come to fruition in September of 2012 speaks volumes of the quality of Rock music we put on in between the Pop artists. It helps the flow and doesn’t make us sound one dimensional.
You have to break the Pop stuff up, even if it’s a Country song by Jason Aldean, Carrie Underwood or a “Red Solo Cup” by Toby Keith. You have to go out and find those and the process is to listen to everything that comes across your desk and if its not suitable for your needs, go find it elsewhere. Search iTunes and other stations that are looking to do what you do, be it Pop, Alternative or Rock stations. It’s truly an education process. I’m continually on iTunes on my iPhone looking daily at the morning sales in Alternative and Top 40.
Which Rock leaning artists have worked for you this year that didn’t command national attention at the format?
Marianas Trench has been one of our secret weapons that just didn’t connect at Top 40 nationally, which is fine by us. They’re huge in Canada, they win Juno Awards and they’re all over the teen magazines. We can put it on and nobody else will care that we’re playing it, but our audience loves it! Other artists like Muse and the Black Keys (from the Akron area) are all compatible bands we can play and it enhances our sound instead of people stopping in their tracks and scratching their heads. They expect it from us. It’s the driving force of the radio station.
Going into the busy fall season, what are you currently championing as possible breakout records over the next couple months?
We put the Imagine Dragons in quite a few weeks ago and upon impact week we were already over 100 spins and ready for sub-power. Their entire album is just amazing. They can be the next Coldplay/Black Keys kind of band. They’re material is deep and very strong. Walk the Moon is another band that impresses me with “Anna Sun.” We’re going to champion the Megan & Liz single as well. The Junior Doctor is another awesome balance record.
In order for you to consistently pull this off successfully, how important is it to thoroughly know your audiences music tastes and tendencies, and how do you best accomplish this?
We have more tools now than especially on the leading edge. Typical callout is probably a tool that a lot of people use, but it’s antiquated on the front end. Twitter and Facebook have replaced traditional callout and traditional request lines when it comes to leading edge research. If you have an afternoon or night jock that’s communicating with you daily about what the biggest songs are via their Facebook and Twitter contacts, those are huge indicators from the young end that help get you to where you need to be with these songs. Take PSY “Gangnam Style,” for example, that wouldn’t be as huge today if it wasn’t for the constant feedback from the audience. The kids are back in school and they’re back talking to each other about the hottest songs they’re listening to and you can get that feedback nightly. All you have to do is communicate with your staff. Facebook and Twitter are not necessarily true callout, but at least strong indicators of what you should be playing.
Given all the “gut feel” that goes into your music choices you still use callout research fairly often. Do you find many of these “shot records” pan out in research?
Absolutely, but they pan out because listeners have already told you the answer before you ask the question. When you’re getting the feedback ahead of the curve via social networking they’re already giving you the answer. All you have to do is turn around and ask them in the traditional callout way. Their reinforcing what they’ve already told you about artists like Olly Murrs or the next Ellie Goulding single.
Does the music cycle mean much to you or do you consider yourself flexible enough to adapt to the trends of the day?
It doesn’t mean much at all to me. Music trends are going to come and go: ‘boy bands’ or no boy bands, Alternative or no Alternative, Rap or no Rap. We’re flexible enough and that’s why balance is so important. You don’t want to have too much invested in one portion of the format because you’re leaning too far in a particular area. You want balance and that’s been our primary goal all along, trends or no trends.
As a ten year CHR, how strong does the Q92.5 brand continue to be?
The brand is certainly a big part of life in Canton. In playing the Rock music it makes us a unique CHR, but I also think our air talent has taken us from a typical CHR to a higher plane by having really compelling (almost Talk show type) hosts in between the records.
You work closely with your airstaff and maintain an on-air shift yourself. How valuable is it to the relationship with your jocks that you essentially are one of them as well?
It’s imperative! I’m positioned in between morning and afternoon drive slots which gives me hands on access to both major dayparts daily, and to constantly have conversations about what worked and what didn’t work is very valuable. Also making sure that what’s on the air is right like the intro times of records, the liner cards, the bio info that’s posted. I’m always touching our Facebook and web pages and making sure they’re updated and right.
If you remove yourself from being a jock and you’re just an office PD, you miss a lot of details you normally wouldn’t because it’s part of your on-air job. It’s through those daily conversations with the air talent where you make discoveries about the bits and artist interviews that are working and those that are not. It’s crucial that I’m on the air and able to do the same things they do. Talking with the audience is also important. That’s one on one contact with your P1’s!
You program in a smaller market, but I’ve always considered you a big thinker when it comes to programming. What do you feel is your core strength as a programmer?
Being in this size market, you have to put your ego aside and know what the job is. I’ve accepted that pretty well in knowing that you’re getting people who are just coming into the business and want to work on their craft with your guidance so they can get to the next level. You have to know that’s part of your job. When you improve them and improve the station, sooner or later they’re going to end up somewhere else which is part of your goal, to nurture them so they get the opportunity to get to the next level. They come to you and they don’t know what they don’t know unless you teach them. They think they know it all early on, but when you sit them down for an aircheck session they miss a few things. You want to get to the point where their hearing the same things you are, and recognizing the mistakes. You’re basically training them to be their own PD’s. They need to know your expectations of the show and make them their expectations so they can deliver as well as they possibly can. Sooner or later they’re going to move onto another market and that’s your goal as the PD in this size market.
Are there any advantages of being in a smaller market and working for a smaller company?
There are a lot of nuances that accompany this size market, and being owned by a Mom & Pop operation. One of the distinct advantages is I’m able to do promotionally what the other guys in the bigger groups aren’t able to do as well, and we utilize that leverage extremely well. We can be very spontaneous and nimble in our response to the market and what the hottest new gadgets are. For example, knowing that the i5 phone was coming out and was going to be a hot item, I have the freedom to grab that stuff early and make it promotionally bigger than life. We don’t have a corporate mandate saying you have to follow this agenda and do a national contest initiative. We poke fun at that as well. You have to take what’s given to you promotionally relative to your competition and use it against them and point it out. You have to tell people you’re in a position to readily give that stuff away where your competition can’t necessarily do that. Big and medium sizes prizes like iPads and flat screen TV’s work really well with people these days. They might not be the giant $10,000 prize but the listeners will take them all day, especially when they know you’re offering a local promotion which is infinitely more winnable than any kind of national promotion where you’re going up against millions of other listeners. Our programming and promotional departments work really well together to give Canton and Akron what they want promotionally.
How much in-market penetration exists from the surrounding markets, and does this affect your programming strategies?
Absolutely! Every Cleveland and Akron radio station penetrates this market. We’re 55 miles away from the sticks in Cleveland and in some cases closer because of Lake Erie where they’re moved to the southern part of Cleveland or even the northern tip of Akron. Many of the bigger groups are represented in the market: Clear Channel, Cumulus, CBS, Next Media. There’s a huge crossover of all those frequencies and it affects everything we do. In Cleveland you have CC’s Top 40 WAKS and Rhythmic WENZ, along with CBS’ WQAL. Our goal is to go in between all three of those. I’m not only programming Canton against Canton. I’m also programming Canton against Akron and Cleveland. We want to locally be the best station chosen from all those options and most of the time we are.
Although you’re not a PPM market, has the PPM mentality of programming influenced the way you program these days?
My belief is that you get a reset every fifteen minutes and that’s the way I try to program. We’re certainly trying to win every quarter hour we possibly can. We don’t think two to four minutes and out. We’re the polar opposite of PPM and need to be in this market, and we win. My afternoon drive guy (The Mo Radio Show) could go on about a topic for the better part of fifteen minutes, but he’s so compelling he just kills it every time! Listeners start pounding the door down wanting to get on the air with him to respond and participate. The engagement factor is strong so we trust it and it’s been a winning formula for us.
You’re demo spread has a wide span, what features work best for the younger end and which one’s are more effective with your older demo?
We’re probably a 60/40 split with the younger end leading, but we certainly have our share of 25-54’s and 18-49’s, which is indicative of the compelling jocks we have and the good balance of music. All of that blends together to draw from AC and Rock stations. Our “Old School Lunch” feature is geared to the at-work listeners and they’re hooked on it. We play music from the eighties, nineties and 2000’s. At nights we do a “Big 8 at 8” for the kids for the most requested songs of the day. At 9 p.m. we also do “Facebook Face-off” with Robbie Mack at Night. Two songs are posted on his Facebook page and listeners vote on which one they want to hear at 9:55 p.m. Romeo on Saturday nights is basically an 18-34 female show, but we get some of the younger crowd on that as well.
Is this a difficult area to balance, especially when you do your Back In The Day weekends throughout the year, or do you find any complementary effect?
We only slow the currents down on those weekends we don’t dump them, so every other song is a Back In The Day song. We’ve shifted from an eighties/nineties focus to an early-nineties to 2000’s throwback because the feature has been going on for ten years now. It was too wide of a stretch to continue to draw from the eighties. The nineties are more of a legitimate throwback where we can continue to hold onto our P1’s through the weekends. Hall & Oates into Pitbull won’t work, but a Nirvana or Weezer will work. You really have to pick and choose.
Ten years ago it was novelty and nobody here was doing it so you can throw any of those records on and you can garner a 25-54 listener. Our goal is to make these weekends as complementary as we can, but you can’t fall asleep at the wheel. You have to work at it and know what you can and can’t get away with. You have to be much more selective. It’s a challenge for sure.
Which programmers and stations do you admire the most?
Michael McCoy at WNCI in Columbus is a great programmer and he has a great radio station. The station is just monstrous, always has been and always will be. It’s good to see Michael return to the station. KALC/Alice in Denver has been a staple and has evolved nicely since its launch with Gregg Cassidy. They’ve gone through some PD’s along the way, but the station has weathered the storm and continues to deliver a solid product. Q92 kind of mirrors Alice to a degree. The morning show is certainly conversational with topical intensive talk surrounded by really good music. They also have an afternoon drive show (Slacker & Steve) where there’s not a lot of music that goes on and they do very well. Then you have (MD) Sam Hill, she’s a great mid-day host. I think it’s a stellar radio station that’s overlooked by a lot of people. I’ve always admired The River (WRVW) in Nashville whether programmed by Rich Davis or (currently) by Michael Bryan and Brian Mack, all very strong PD’s. Rich did an amazing job with the station and the new programming team is carrying the torch. The station has always been very promotionally and artist driven which continues to pay high dividends.
You’ve always worked very closely with the label community. What is the key factor to a successful partnership with the labels?
The key component is that you must have a high level of mutual trust. Whatever I tell you I’m going to do I better do it, and the same on your end. It has to be a partnership where you have each other’s best interests in mind and you follow through and keep your word.
If you could give the music industry any advice what would top the list?
Utilizing iTunes and social network platforms in a much bigger way to help figure out what the next single should be. It really needs to be a necessity. Throw some songs up on iTunes and see what the audience starts downloading and then go create your plan for the next single based on what they’ve downloaded. Too often labels are coming with the wrong second single and it ruins the momentum of projects or in some cases kills the project or even an artist’s career. You don’t get many attempts with programmers on a third single if the second one was a dud. Come out with the right track. As the first single is working, plant the seed on iTunes for the follow up with a couple of tracks and ask the target demo what they think. Even ask it on the artist’s Facebook page. Aggressively solicit the consumer’s help.
[eQB Content By Fred Deane]
