Jim McGuinn, PD KCMP/Minneapolis

How did you become a webcasting pioneer?
The day Y100 was blown up we launched Y100Rocks.com, initially out of my spare bedroom. We went online to provide a home for the community of disenfranchised listeners.  It was quite a learning experience because artists literally came to my house and played acoustic sessions. People like Brendan Benson, Graham Coxson and Hot Hot Heat came over to my house.  A year or so later we hooked up with ’XPN and it became YRockonXPN, and blossoming into a model for what other people are trying, which is to bring a younger audience into the non-commercial umbrella. The day we went on the air on the FM, I thought it was so amazing because it started in my house with just a couple of people and a couple thousand dollars worth of gear, and now you can actually hear it on the radio. That’s so impossible to do these days. 

How did you identify the opportunity to marry that web station to a non-commercial Triple A station (WXPN) that really was focused on a much older demo?
When Y100 went away, there was some initial conversation with the ’XPN team.  Nothing ever came of it, and as Y100Rocks.com grew we kept in touch. A year or so later I ran into (‘XPN GM)Roger LaMay getting a cup of coffee down the street and I told him how many audio streams we’ve launched and our revenue and Podcast numbers, and he said we should talk. ’XPN was getting to that point where they knew the one area they could grow in would be to entice a younger demo into the public radio model.  So we eventually crafted this relationship where we would have the Internet station 24-7, and then ten-hours-a-week, we’d take over ’XPN. Now we’re the HD2 signal for ’XPN and that should help drive a new generation below the Baby Boomers to get involved with the station.

Now tell us about the transition from programming the evening and HD2 channel – all geared toward a younger demo than the station – to being the afternoon drive host on ’XPN.
The transition was made easier because I am on the cusp between Baby Boomer and Gen X-er, so I can speak both languages.  Meaning also the musical ways to appeal to the 20-something, and the 30-something that liked ’XPN but maybe would like it better if it was more a little bit like what Y-Rock is.  It enabled ’XPN to extend its mission in terms of the music it covers and the artistic community it serves. It broadens what the station can do in terms of a musical mission.  It was interesting to try to figure out how to both make ’XPN listeners excited about something that was geared a little different, but also to bring some new listeners to ’XPN that weren’t aware of how good ’XPN is 24-7. 

Coming from the commercial side, what did you have to re-learn to function inside the day-to-day operation of a non-comm?
When I was at Y100, I was mostly a PD. When I would do airshifts, I actually felt a little alien because when I first got into Alternative radio in the late ’80s, it was closer to Triple A in presentation. Then it morphed to almost the Top 40 style of on-air delivery, content, presentation and production. So for me it was very natural to move into this and to bring it back to the reason why many people got into radio, which is to share experiences, share music and try to create a bond with the listener. You don’t really do that by talking about a club gig sponsored by a beer.  You do that when you can talk about the music and you can talk about things that happen in your life.  At ’XPN, and at non-comm in general, you have so much more room to be able to do that than you do at a commercial Alternative station today.

What is it about public radio that has so enamored you since your arrival at ’XPN?
It’s all about the business model and how different the approach is.  I worked for a single owner/operator much of my career, and then I worked for a corporate owner in commercial radio, and now I work for a non-comm.  In non-comm we know that we have to serve the audience so well that the audience will willingly reach into their pocket to support us.  So we’re completely focused (on a content basis) on serving, pleasing and making the audience really bond with us.
In commercial radio, as the business model moved from single owner/operators to more of a corporate landscape and the money crunch became tougher, the first thing that would get hit was marketing, and then the programming staff starts getting cut.
            When I was at Y100, when we went to a corporation, all of our outside marketing went away.  At one point I had fourteen people that worked for me at Y100.  Five years later I had nine and I was expected to do as much work with the lesser staff.  So the corporate commercial radio model often is based on how little resources can be devoted to programming and still get enough of an audience that advertisers will pay to expose their message on it.  In doing that, they’ve taken out a lot of the fun and a lot of the creativity.  It’s become much more difficult to achieve that in commercial radio because you’re doing so many jobs at once.
Here, the more we make the more we can spend on creating good content, which will further entice more listeners to give us money.  So if we make more money we can create more web initiatives; we can create more podcasts; we can create more alternate streams.  We can do things that further serve the audience, and that helps them be more motivated to give us moremoney.  And it creates this loop of positive feedback which is so rewarding to be a part of.

So you find yourself with a great job doing afternoons at a stable radio station and you get to program an Alternative station that is much more akin to the Alternative you started with.  What is so enticing about living in 20-below weather to make you be moving out to The Current at this point?
The Current is only three or four-years-old and the cement is not dry on what it’s doing.  I’ve been a fan of what (previous PD) Steve Nelson and the whole team has done there since Day One.  Musically it perfectly fits my aesthetic, and they’ve already made a great connection with the listeners in Minneapolis. They’re at a point where The Current is ready for its next phase of development.  And that’s an ideal opportunity.    

When you got into radio it was in many ways the dominant mass medium in terms of listenership and billing, but a lot has changed since then. Talk about the state of the medium.
It seems like we’re losing the younger generations.  At Drexel University I taught a radio class to college students and most of them, when they started the class, weren’t listening to radio at all.  I had to force them to listen to some radio.  They’d given up on the medium.  So I’m nervous about that, but one positive development I’ve seen has been the growth of public radio and non-comm.  It’s really the only place where resources are being devoted to creating content and programming is really driving the ship.  It’s no wonder that’s where you’re seeing some gain in audience, whereas most of the commercial end of the dial is facing a slow TSL erosion as people are spending more and more time with the Internet and with a myriad of lifestyle choices.  We’re not in a mass media world anymore.  We’re in a much more niched, nuanced world.
The other thing that’s positive about public media is it being a subscription-based service with listener support. It forces you to super-serve a niche.
So it’s a dire time for commercial radio, but a less dire time to be in public radio.  I still don’t know how to get 16-year-olds to pay attention to anything if they’re not controlling the content themselves, and that’s going to be a challenge for radio to figure out in the future if it’s going to morph and survive.  But at least among the 25+ demos, there is still a belief that if it’s done right, the way that communities form and bonds form around the personalities and the music played on the radio, it can still be done

Can the mediums survive at both ends of the dial?
I think some people are trying.  You’re seeing some more interesting Rock stations being launched at the commercial end of the dial over the last year or so, like WRXP in New York.  The trick is monetizing that audience when it’s definitely a niche.  If you can monetize that audience on the commercial side, then you’ll see more of those stations.  PPM has been positive for Rock stations in general.  I like what Leslie Fram and Matt Pinfield are doing with ’RXP, and if they can make money at it, then you’ll see more stations like that.  I know commercial radio and if somebody makes money at it, somebody else will follow and they’ll try it.
We’re seeing a bit of a return to better content.  As a consumer, that’s what I want.  I just want better content as a listener.  I don’t want to be treated like a 14-year-old dummy.  Treat me like an intelligent human being.  And public radio, whether it’s on the news side or the music side, does a better job of that than commercial radio does right now.