Jeff Hurley, PD, WLAN Lancaster & Mike “OD” O’Donnell, Entercom OM Wilkes-Barre/Scranton
Jeff Hurley, PD, WLAN Lancaster
&
Mike “OD” O’Donnell, Entercom OM Wilkes-Barre/Scranton
Jeff: You have a staff that never seems to change…Jumpin’ Jeff has been in afternoon drive since the station signed on. Rocky & Sue, Kelly K and Fishboy have been there for years! Even after 4+ years, you’re still the “new guy” on the staff. What’s best about working with a staff that’s been intact for so long?
OD: When I first came to KRZ, I knew what I was inheriting because I had the privilege of meeting the key players ahead of time. As a matter of fact, my (then) soon to be boss Jim Rising made me meet with the AM and PM shows alone in their offices and chat about radio. That was part of the interview! He wanted to know how perceptive I was at reading people. I must have been right, because I got the gig.
This is best situation you can walk into with a staff that never turns over and a station with strong ratings. These guys have huge brands and with Rocky & Sue and Jeff Walker, multiple generations of listeners. We are not a PPM market and I have no clue if/when it will come to town, so that means simply brand retention and recall to win! Plus, these personalities are pros and they know their market well. They constantly need to tweak their game to stay relevant and they’ve done it. That is the key to great brands. If you stop evolving, it’s over! They make my gig easy because they understand this.
Jeff: How about the worst parts?
OD: I don’t know that there are any parts I consider to be “the worst.” When I first showed up, some staffers took me with a grain of salt. I actually had one person say something like, “We have seen PD’s come and go and we will see the same with you.” Nothing like a warm welcome to my new gig! But honestly, it didn’t bother me. A good manager needs to understand what’s really going on there. They don’t know me. They don’t know what I plan to do. In their minds they are in defensive mode. The new guy is here and the KRZ snow-globe might just get a shake up and they’re just protecting their turf.
Ultimately, I didn’t have to deal with huge egos and deaf ears. I felt right from the beginning the KRZ staff granted me the respect and open-mindedness I had hoped for. Either that or they should all have gotten Marconi Awards for their performance to the new PD. The only other issues I’ve seen are some typical reluctance to technical advances or a new daily routine. We recently built new studios and my engineers asked if they should keep a few Techniques turntables handy.
Jeff: We’re all dealing with smaller staffs and decreased budgets. How do you maintain the “larger than life” presence that KRZ has always been known for?
OD: KRZ’s larger than life presence was always built on big personalities and big promotions. Guess what? Thank God we still have big personalities. KRZ is very fortunate to have a largely live staff intact, a dream for many who have lost several over the years. It happened to me elsewhere before I came to Entercom. I really credit this company’s philosophy in its commitment to strong local brands and personality driven radio. We all need to assess our resources and tighten responsibly. But I truly believe we will come full circle, and what made radio king will be our saving grace…strong local brands! It’s what separates us from the generic “store brands.” However, it’s imperative we embrace every technology and exploit them to the max to extend our brands in our best interests. If you do all of this and continue to reach out and cater to your market, you will say on top.
Jeff: What challenges do you face in transitioning a huge, heritage CHR into a more fast paced digital world?
OD: The key is resources, and most of us have less than we had a few years ago. That means you need to get your staff understanding that the world is moving faster every year and there is no going back. They need to buy into brand extension. We do not just watch the phones to ring in the studio. We need to integrate web, text and social nets into the show daily. Our guys know they also need to create original daily content as well including video and online bits. I reminded our team not to think of it as, “We have a great radio station and there is a website we have to do stuff for too. It’s an extension of your show. Think about how you can create content by integrating what’s happening right on the show today. Just plan a bit ahead and think out of the box.” If you can get your key players to understand this and get on board, the content will flow.
Jeff: Last year you made a difficult choice and replaced Saturday Night at the Oldies with Romeo’s Saturday Night Online. What went into the decision and what was the listener reaction to the change?
OD: As a PD, you continuously need to honestly vet your brand and not get caught up on, “That’s what we always did,” or “That show has been #1 for 25 years,” or “But it’s a staple of the station.” That all may be true, but if it isn’t relevant today or you’re hung up on nostalgia, you’re going to wake up screwed someday asking yourself, when did everybody change?
In the case of Saturday Night at the Oldies, I knew it was time. As a matter fact, it was on the minds of a few PD’s before me, but nobody pulled the trigger. For me, it was timing. I wanted to put on some kind of a party show but still have a strong personality presence and something that could connect with active demos. We first thought maybe a local show with a club jock mixing it up. However, putting 50,000 watts in those hands scared me, plus I wanted more content. Saturday Night Online Live with Romeo came at the perfect time so I didn’t hesitate. There was no negative feedback from moving Shadoe Steele‘s show. We moved the show to one of our other sticks, WILK, thanks to the brainchild of APD Kelly K. And who said programmers have no heart?
Jeff: Both of our stations are known as leaders when it comes to breaking music on the Pop/Rock side. With the chart being so skewed toward Rhythm and Dance music, where are you finding the right records to maintain the balance and sound of the station?
OD: A hit is a hit whether it’s Rhythm, Dance or Rock, and music has its cycles. So KRZ tries to roll with it. Yes, we lean Rock and we do break those kinds or records, but the callout shows that Dance is currently king (or queen). I have been really surprised at how many Rock leaning records we’ve played in the last 12 months that haven’t come home in callout. That said, we aim to balance what we play by sonically breaking up the sounds with some of the stuff nobody else wants to play (Rock). We will never add a record just because it sounds like our center. We need to believe in it. We listen, we assess and we try to pick the right ones. 30 Seconds To Mars, Sick Puppies and Good Charlotte have fit us well lately. But last year we played around with Shinedown “The Crow and The Butterfly” and Green Day “Last Of The American Girls.” Plus, Breaking Benjamin “Give Me A Sign” tested top 5 in 2010, and is still huge. In the end, a hit is a hit and we listen to the callout for the important categories.
Jeff: Every Single person who has ever worked at a Wilkes-Barre/Scranton station has a “Woodlands” story. Care to share any?
OD: For the uninitiated, let me explain. The Woods is a long time family run Dance club, hotel, bistro, tiki bar, wedding hall, and place to get s-faced. It is very popular and a huge place. It can hold a thousand fine Northeast, PA partiers.
To my story…It was my first visit to town just before my interview for the KRZ PD gig in ’07. It was a Friday night, and I just got out of my soon to be previous gig. I hit the road from New England and headed to Wilkes-Barre, about six hours at 80 mph. Jim Rising the KRZ Ops guy made arrangements for me to stay at The Woodlands. I would be meeting with him and the GM for a Saturday morning breakfast. So it’s about midnight when I pull into The Woodlands lot and it’s jammed. I roll around for a bit and finally find a place to park. I get out of my car and walk around to grab my overnight bag out of the trunk. Remember, it’s my first time setting foot on the ground in this new market I may call home. The next thing I hear and see next to my car is a kid, drunk out of his mind, puking all over the lot hanging on to his door handle. I wondered if it was a sign.
Jeff: What’s the relationship like between your local cluster and the programming hierarchy within Entercom, and how do they assist you in programming such a diverse cluster of stations?
OD: The relationship is great. I can pick up the phone anytime and reach somebody who will get me what I need quickly. Entercom is a company that believes in letting each of their markets do their own specific plan that brings success, and that’s the key. They know each market is unique and exclusive. This company expects excellence from their brands and if the goal is clear and the execution is on target, we will win on all fronts. I keep a line of communication open with my managers locally and nationally and it works well. From my standpoint, I always have resources and feedback when I need it from some of the best people in the business, and that’s comforting.
Jeff: You’re called into the GM’s office and told, “We can add one full time position to the cluster.” What’s the position?
OD: In my case, it would be a website/content person. Our digital front is growing so rapidly and we as radio people know the importance of extending the brand through our station website. My guys are doing a killer job creating content, but in many cases that extra digital person can be the deciding factor between a good website and an awesome website. Our market has one digital person who does admin for four sites and creates most of the graphics and sales campaigns. Not a lot of time for tweaks, but luckily our guy is a pro! I would love to see some help for him.
Jeff: How many times have I made an artist or rep late for their scheduled visit to your station?
OD: I’m not sure if you’ve created any tardiness for artists or reps coming to KRZ, but I know when they tell me their next stop is LAN to see Hurley, I say, “Don’t worry about him, he’ll get over it.”
Jeff: KRZ MD Kelly K has said, “You have to program this station differently than any other Top 40 station.” What do you do differently due to the unique heritage, and how long did you have to be with KRZ to really get what makes it so special and different?
OD: Kelly is right, we do program KRZ very differently than most. Here are the differences. 1) The panel is very aggressive. KRZ is very conservative and well tested. 2) The panel adds Rock leaning stuff last. KRZ adds Rock first in most cases. 3) Many guys look at the charts for guidance. KRZ is not too concerned with the laundry list. 4) Many stations take the jukebox approach. KRZ has massive show brands that communicate. 5) Some stations have dialed contesting back. KRZ continues to bring great promotions to a market that embraces them.
As far as “getting” KRZ, I made a point to get it from day one. In so many cases when a new PD comes to town, they feel they need to make a bunch of changes to make a splash and mark their territory like a dog, but that’s dangerous. The best thing a new PD coming into a new market can do is just sit back and soak it all in. Listen, learn and understand everything that touches your brand: the market, the listeners, the competition. The whole vibe from top to bottom. Once you’ve done that, you will begin to understand why it is what your new station does. Then, you can make the tweaks you would like with confidence, and most importantly a clear goal based on the data you have taken the time to learn.
Jeff: I’m a twitter-freak, so please answer in 140 characters or less. What makes this station so strong year after year, and book after book?
OD: KRZ is a radio icon thanks to its consistent well researched programming, a dedicated staff and on air personalities who shine daily for the fans.
OD: Sounds like you may know the history of KRZ better than me! I’m a transplant from New England and grew up with the legendary KISS 108 and PRO-FM. When, where and why did you get the bug to get into this circus we love?
Jeff: I got the bug very early on in life. My best friend’s father was the engineer at WENY AM/FM/TV in Elmira NY, and was also a ham radio nut. We’d play around with equipment and do our own radio shows in his room. I started board-op’ing the polka show on Sunday mornings when I was 14 (that’s legal, right?). It was non-stop from that point on. Where I lived, you could get lots of out-of-market signals if you knew where to listen, so I’d park on top of a small hill near my house and listen to some strange “KRZ” station that was broadcasting in the faraway world of Scranton.
OD: We’ve all been influenced early on by the many personalities and show brands we listened to growing up. Who are some of your favorites and where did they work?
Jeff: I grew up in a very small town, so I wasn’t exposed to all the well-known big market jocks until years later. I started out just idolizing some of the great local guys. Steve Christie on WENY-AM and Ray Ross. I had cassette tapes of Zippo and Greasemanand I’d just sit there and listen in awe. I’d drive to Binghamton and listen to WMRV, and grew up on “The WAAL” (when it was Top 40). I used to tape PIRATE RADIO USA every Saturday night on 94 Rock WLVY. Once I got to college, I was able to be a part of the staff at WINK 106, which is just a great local radio station. Former morning host Michael Williams taught me that you didn’t really need to wash your coffee mug, and that whiskey was best when served on the rocks with a splash of water.
OD: The talent pool has shrunk over the years, but we still hear some great radio from some great personalities, only fewer due to consolidation and syndication. How do you see that affecting radio’s future regarding the talent pool for our individual markets?
Jeff: The talent pool isn’t as deep as it once was, but you can’t convince me that it isn’t as good.
There’s a new breed of jocks who’ve grown up in a world where multi-platform, online content is the norm. Guys like Toby Knapp andKane are the template for “radio personality in 2011.” There will always be ways for young talent to shine. It’s just different than when we started. Look at my girl “Nik the web chick” from Clear Channel Philly. She’s a newer talent who really got her break from reality television, and doing web stuff for Q102 and Romeo’s SNOL show. Now you can hear her in morning drive on MIX and across multiple platforms in the market. She’s a perfect example of how to find talent in the year 2011. We just have to look in unconventional places to find and grow these talented peeps.
OD: WLAN, like WKRZ, continues to succeed with a largely local staff, a luxury today. What are the tradeoffs regarding local personalities vs. tracked/syndicated, and which do you prefer?
Jeff: I always champion local talent, but the reality is we can’t always do that. You need to pick and choose where to apply your limited local resources. We’ve focused ours in morning and afternoon drive. I’m a huge believer in voice-tracked talent, but I really want them to connect to the market. My two trackers are Leah (middays) and Jojo (nights). Leah is the receptionist at our Reading sister-cluster, and Jojo has worked in the market and grew up nearby. Yes, I’ve got the receptionist tracking middays, and she’s fantastic! They both have strong knowledge of the marketplace.
OD: WLAN and WKRZ are unique brands in a sea of stations that sound alike and even look alike. Yes we are Pop/Rock leaning markets. The joke here is that Bon Jovi could still be in power-recurrent! Musically speaking, what goes into your thought process in terms of adds, when charts really don’t help much in our case?
Jeff: I simply ignore the mainstream Top 40 chart. It’s too skewed towards younger-end CHRs and pretty irrelevant compared to what we do here. I’ve built several custom panels through mediabase, and really focus on similar “Pop/Rock” CHRs to help me determine music. If I’m really stuck on a song, I take the “thinking” out of the equation. I just pull up my WNCI/WDCG/WRVW panel and see what they’re doing. Luckily, there’s also a strong group of like-minded stations in this region. It must be pretty nice when a label is working a new Train or Daughtry record, and they know that WLAN, WKRZ, WAEB, WSTW and WFLY are all within shouting distance of each other. Those records tend to break out of this region because there’s a strong group of stations who champion that style of music.
OD: How do you get your talent to create consistent, original web content, and how do you motivate the one’s who don’t understand it is brand extension and not everyone listens on a boombox anymore?
Jeff: I am truly blessed. My staff, both local and voice-tracked, have embraced the digital revolution and are running with it. That’s partly because I’m addicted to it, but also because Clear Channel has done a great job of creating an environment and mindset where DIGITAL MATTERS. We embrace it in every sales pitch and every promotion. It’s not even a second thought anymore, and that’s a good feeling to have. I think our outstanding web and social media numbers are a reflection of this commitment.
OD: Where do you see the future of our PD and OM gigs in ten years, and will these jobs still be around?
Jeff: We’re already transitioning into a Brand Manager role, and that’s just going to grow and continue. It’s our job to blend local content with national and syndicated shows to create unique brands across multiple platforms. As long as there is talent, there will always be a demand for people to coach, nurture and develop it.
OD: You and every other PD in the business have your hands in everything: logs, live show, voice-tracking, remotes, website, talent mentoring…and that’s only Monday! How do you handle the balancing act?
Jeff: My A.D.D. is an absolute blessing. It’s second nature for me to have three computers and a blackberry in my face at all times. I do my best to schedule tasks and build routines, but we always have to be flexible. I wish I was more neat and organized, but my mind just doesn’t operate that way. I’m also lucky enough to have a loving fiancé’ (Kelly) who embraces this business and knows that my schedule isn’t 9-5.
OD: What is your all-time favorite promotion, and what key elements need to be present for a winning promotion?
Jeff: The gold standard for promotions had to be WHIRL TIL YOU HURL at Star 104 in Erie, back in the summer of 2004. We had eight contestants, living on the skyride at a local amusement park for forty-three straight days. We owned the local news reports for a month straight…Live shots, newspaper reports, reporters on-site. We also owned the ratings with a 19.8 (12+) that fall and were the highest rated CHR in America. Rick Rambaldo was the Market Manager at the time, and he challenged the team to come up with a truly memorable promotion. Mission Accomplished!
Any promotion has to make the audience care. Whether you’re giving away tickets or doing an online picture contest, there has to be a compelling reason for someone to invest their time and interest in a station event. We can’t just slap a bunch of promos and a banner on the website. A truly successful promotion has to build and expand the brand.
OD: I always wondered, has an Amish person ever called your show? Is that still considered bad?
Jeff: Unfortunately, the “all Amish request hour” wasn’t exactly moving the needle in ratings.
[FMQB ORIGINAL CONTENT, published March 2011, please do not republish or reprint without the express consent of FMQB. Make sure you visit us on the Web at www.fmqb.com]
